Open Scriptures

Comments

1. Robert MacDonald

   This sounds great. I’ve wanted to help with Bible software in a meaningful way and not seen a good opportunity. I use and interact with OSS projects all the time for work and have for a number of years. I’m also in touch with a large portion of the Seattle Java community so I’ll see how I can find some Christians there who might help.

   Go for it, Weston!

   Robert
   JEE Software Engineer

2. Ben Davidson

   Thanks for letting me know about this. It’s really exciting to see you trying to get this project moving again. I don’t know how much help I have to offer, but I’m willing to pull out the lexicon and go back to work if I can help make this happen in some small way.

3. mgvh

   This is a great idea and a worthwhile project! If my experience is any guide, I suspect I know why the Re:Greek project failed. I am a seminary teacher, and I teach Greek, and I have pointed my students to the site. I noted a couple ways that the site could be improved (namely, expanding and clarifying the Bible book name abbreviations) and contacted Zack about correcting them. He wrote back and encouraged me to correct them myself. Now, I’m a fairly web-savvy guy, but I am not a programmer. I tried to figure out what it would take for me to make the changes, and I gave up due to ignorance and fear of messing something up.
   My point is that I suspect the success of the site is going to depend on smart programmers who know what is going on and not on the overwhelming majority of users who have no idea or confidence about making changes.

4. David at free Christian resources

   Thanks for the comment on my website highlighting this. I’ll do a post on it soon in case anyone is able to help.

5. drew

   Thanks for stopping by my blog to leave a link to this post. What you’re attempting is tremendous and any way I can help (fearfully minimally) I offer. I’ll begin spreading the word about the project.

6. Darrell Smith

   I am a retired software engineer and have been studying Hebrew for 20+ years and Greek the last 4 or so. Relevant expertise is Linux/PHP/Javascript/etc.

   I live in Longview,WA. Zhuberts site has been a real blessing and I look forward to helping it in any way I can. Ζῆ Χριστός! יְבָרֶכְךָ יָהְוֶה

7. tommy

   This is a fabulous idea. Zhuberts has been enormously helpful for me and my Greeks students.

   I would love to help. I have (hobby-only) experience in php, html, javascript.

   I would love to see the Zhubert functionality packed into an offline ebook!

8. Weston Ruter

   Zack Hubert has shut down zhubert.com. Read the following thread to learn what happened: http://groups.google.com/group/open-scriptures/browse_thread/thread/f57701ff851ae905

9. Re:Greek is no more… | SamMarsh.net

   […] has has copyright issues with the German Bible Society. To read more see this thread. God speed its successor… This entry was posted on Friday, March 20th, 2009 at 22:34 and is filed under Greek . You […]

10. Can you help the Re:Greek project? | free Christian resources

    […] Weston Ruter is trying to revive the Re:Greek project and website. Re:Greek is a great website for studying greek, but has fallen short of the original aims to provide an open source bible study tool. […]

11. vassilip

    wellcome!

    the Word must be freely accesible and open
    otherwise we use Him against His will for light and life

    may He inspire you always!

12. Ian Scott

    Thanks for taking the initiative here. I’d be very interested in co-operating on developing a FOS web-interface and back-end data structure. I’m founder and co-editor of the Online Critical Pseudepigrapha and we’re just starting development of a 2nd generation web interface that will move from user-side ajax processing to back-end processing, probably using MySQL and PHP. I’ve got a developer working with me on a volunteer basis and a little bit of research funding to help, so if we could coordinate our efforts I think we’d all get a lot further. Feel free to drop me a note at iscott (the AT sign) tyndale.ca

    Grace and peace,

    Ian

13. Jerri Badenhop

    I want my zhubert back! I was counting on it to pass my Greek exegesis class!
    I’ll check out OpenScriptures with a good attitude, but I was spoiled by zhubert…

14. GUNNY HARTMAN

    zhubert.com being shut down is bad bull. A great resource for Bible study has been lost and I am saddened by the Word no longer being easily accessible to the masses in that manner.

15. Filip Milosavljevic

    Guys who ran this site…this is just wrong to let this project fall at the way side. This was a huge help to me and my pals in Andrews University for our Greek class…it will be a sad day when I realize the help I had is gone. Please do whatever you can to get it back!

16. farnk boumphrey

    I will try and get a similar feature up (daily reading) linked to my web site using the tyndale house copy of the GNT which should not have any copyright issues. Can anyone help me out with a daily lectionary of suitable length passages? It is so sad that that Zhubert is ended , it was one of the great features of the bible web

17. Christoffer Ahlbäck, Sweden

    The shutdown of Zhubert.com is the worst news of the year! It’s the best help I’ve ever heard of for greek students, and it has been my first aid learning grammar and new words. Zhubert.com cuts down the time wasted in searching in huge books to zero and gives me a lot more time to actually learn greek.

    Please don’t give up Zhubert.com so quick!!!

18. Tim

    Zhubert truly was a great resource as has already been acknowledged by many. I am in Greek II this semester and had to work hard not to use it as a crutch in translation but when I didn’t have a huge lexicon right next to me I knew I had a backup in this helpful site.

    I think it is fantastic that so quickly many have responded to the call for help in re-establishing this type of medium for students everywhere. Maintain your enthusiasm for this idea brothers and sisters! I certainly am with you in eagerly awaiting what may come of this great vision for making the original languages of our scripture available in this way online!

19. Alastair Arthur, UK

    It all seems to have been said. Zhubert.com is going to be a personal miss for thousands of us worldwide. One thing it did was to show the way forward towards truly Open Scriptures, so I’m not sure what I can contribute, but count me in!

20. Estel

    One of the things I found especially valuable about zhubert.com was that it included the Septuagint as well as the New Testament. Is there any chance that this new project might include that as well?

21. Weston Ruter

    @Estel:
    Yes, the Open Scriptures project has a much broader scope than just the Greek New Testament and a bigger reach than just the scriptures in Greek, like the LXX. Unlike Re:Greek, Open Scriptures is concerned with all the scriptures, in their original languages like Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic… and also every ancient version (e.g. LXX) and modern translation used today (e.g. NIV, KJV). Even though I am a Christian, my personal desire for this project is that it would not even be restricted to canonical Christian scriptures, but that it would also include scriptures such as the Islamic Qur’an. The purpose in this would be to provide a place where people of faith can dialog about our respective beliefs rooted in the scriptures where the beliefs come from, all so we can work to more fully understand each other and where we have come from. (Read the excerpt from Karl Hoffman’s talk at BibleTech last year for more about this.)

22. Sean

    Does anyone know whether simply using a different Greek text was considered rather than closing the zhubert site? Wescott and Hort’s Greek text isn’t copyrighted, and it’s a high quality text, IMO. If the German Bible Society feels that it has the right to copyright a compilation of mss that are nearly 2,000 years old, then so be it, but why should that be permitted to snuff out a very useful tool, especially for b-greekers?

23. GUNNY HARTMAN

    I just had to come back and lament one more time. As has been said, the LXX on here was a sweet resource. I’m now lacking a copy of it at all. Yeah, what Sean said, perhaps another Greek text. Bible students and, consequently, all those they influence and will potentially influence have been done a great disservice with the loss of zhubert.com.
    ;-(

24. Toby Anderson

    I have been using zhubert.com to store my own translation of the greek, now it’s gone is there no way to get my translation work back?

25. benny

    … o weh, mit Hilfe von zhubert habe ich meine ganzen Griechisch-Studiun bestritten und bin sehr, sehr dankbar dafür – jetzt ist mein ganzer Arbeitsplan durcheinander und ich hab’ noch keine Ersatz-Idee 🙁
    Aber vielen Dank (tut mir sehr leid, dass ich vorher nie DANKE geschrieben habe.)

26. Matt

    I’m quite saddened by the shutdown. While I am personally rather upset that anyone would have the audacity to copyright the Word of God (or to at least hold others in contempt for using it for the furtherance of the Kingdom), I praise God for the time I was able to use zhubert.com

    There are a few similar sites out there, and I always have my trusty Friberg analyt handy….. but Zhubert was just so user friendly.

    Thank you Zack for all the help you gave us with your site, and the enormous amount of time you obviously spent on it. I am sure it was quite a cost to you and I will forever be in debt to your work!

27. Zack Hubert

    Thanks Matt.

    I appreciate your kind words.

28. Jared

    Thank you Zack for all your work, you helped me tremendously in my Greek translations, Zhubert will be missed!

29. Jonathan

    Is there any possibility of working together with the folks at Gramcord on this? They are non-profit at least…

30. Joseph Stoltzfus

    I for one would gladly pay by the chapter, just as many pay $.99 per song on iTunes. That could fund the work of the German Bible Society and provide access for all of us. Let’s make this disaster into an opportunity.
    Thank you Zack for the great work you did. It was the best language interface most of us will ever see.

31. hans

    this site was a great help for me during my undergrad. at moody and even still during my grad. studies at wheaton. thank you so much

32. The Gazman

    See post 26. from Matt.
    What he said.
    Possibly will add an hour or so to my sermon prepaaration each week having to check for myself manually or beat my memory into submission. Just wanted to add my thanks for the great resource while it lasted – don’t know what I can contribute to a similar project except my encouragement.

33. ASP Hua

    What is so special about MorphGNT that it cannot be substituted by an independent parsing index? And if UBS4 cannot be accessed, what about the Majority Text with variant readings which include the UBS4? I think Robinson has his own parsing.
    Once the nexus of copyright is cut, perhaps the German Bible Society will realize how futile “chaining” their products, which were collaborative efforts in the first place, really is.

34. RD

    I loved Re:Greek.

35. Jonathan

    Do you have site stats to give any idea how many individuals, schools, seminaries, churches were utilizing zhubert.com? It was a great resource. Is there a possibility of writing a grant? Or working out an advertising deal with UBS? I know the new “Readers” version has come out. A lot of users might not know that and your site could have driven customers to them…

    Advertising for UBS, Gramcord, BDAG, BibleWorks, other seem plausible anyway. Seems like a huge waste to just drop or have to start from scratch. I think you had a huge resource for streaming folks to and educating them about the work of the UBS, etc…

36. Daniel

    I am quite upset that the word of God (especially the original greek) is copyrighted and restrained in this manner. The Roman church did their own version of this in the middle ages – denying the right to translate. Is this any different?

    Am I wrong in thinking this is wrong and sinful?

37. Roy

    While I am saddened by the loss of zhubert, it really doesn’t make sense to rail against GBS for “copywriting the Word of God (especially in the original Greek)” or some such. The GNT hasn’t been sitting around just waiting for GBS to pick it up and scan it. Someone has to sit down and examine ancient manuscripts. If you haven’t done it, try it. It is very difficult and time consuming and requires a thorough knowledge of Greek, the attainment of which costs money. Then scholars have to work on all of the variants and determine which one is the best and then what to put in the apparatus. Then there is the continual tweaking, etc. for later editions (begging the question of necessity of later editions). Some of you are apparently unaware that this costs MONEY. Yea, we’re all spoiled by the internet. but I doubt GBS makes a fortune of the stuff and it’s not too much to ask that they be reimbursed for the work they do. If you preach for free, maybe you’ve got a gripe. If you take the money, why is it wrong for GBS to do so?

    Further, they aren’t denying the right to translate and comparing it to whatever you think the Medieval Church did is–I’m sorry–foolish. Translate all you want. Just BUY the GNT first and not expect someone’s hard work to be given to you gratis. If you need a cheat sheet, BUY BibleWorks. Or, put together your own GNT. If you’ve got the guts to do that, I doubt you’d be so willing to give it away free at the end of the project. At any rate, to equate making you pay for a product is quite different from censorship, wouldn’t you agree?

    I am not affiliated in any way with GBS, though I did win an award some years ago from UBS.

38. Pam

    I’m really sad to see zhubert.com shut down. I’ve been recommending it to my Greek students in Romania, most of whom have limited funds for buying study resources, even if they had the motivation to do so. I’ve also used it regularly for my personal reading. I hope Open Scriptures will really take off!

39. Martin Flower

    The disappearance of zhubert is a great loss. Two thougts

    1. can the model be revived – this time sustainably ? How do we turn our commitment into as sustained longterm cash flow (subscriptions ?)

    2. can we use the internet as a petition platform to bring this calamity to the attention of the Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft ? Can zhubert be a service on their website ?

40. Weston Ruter

    @Martin:
    I think that a petition might be our only recourse. The German Bible Society doesn’t seem to even want to license the NA27/UBS4 for use on any website whatsoever, even with licensing fees. They cite this decision as being a “matter of principle”, which they haven’t explained. Read more and help formulate a gracious response: http://groups.google.com/group/open-scriptures/msg/9bafc6c1e5c0d2d3

41. Stephen Spiars

    Someone just told me today of zhubert so I check it out and it’s down. 🙁 But hey, at least I don’t know what I’m missing. I truly was looking forward to using this site.

42. Christoffer Ahlbäck, Sweden

    Roy:

    Of course it cost a lot of money to do all the research it takes to make a edition of all manuscripts of NT that you think is the closest you can get to the original text. And of course the people who does that job should get money enought to buy food. =)

    But it also takes a long time to learn greek, and Zhubert did a great effort in helping students like me to learn quicker and focus on gramatical difficulties rather than searching for the basics in thick books. It was a quick help to check that I translated correctly.

    So I just don’t see why these two can get together. I have already bought Novum, so that I should be allowed to read the text. And frankly, I’m ready to pay to use a service like Zhubert, if thats what is needed. Perhaps this is what you meant. =)

    /Christoffer

43. Lucas Weeks

    Dear Weston,

    First of all, thank you very much for taking the lead on what I hope will be a very important and sustainable community project in years to come. It is very exciting to me, as a Christian who works in the IT sector, to hear about what you guys are doing, and I’m very eager to help out where I can.

    With that said, I must insist that the position that you take towards the German Bible Society is fundamentally the wrong one. The German Bible Society did not give us the Scriptures – God did. So it is fundamentally wrong to approach them as if they have the right to bar Christians from using the Bible in ways that manifestly benefit the body of Christ (ReGreek.com being a prime example). I make no arguments about the *legality* of what they are doing – their case would certainly be upheld in a court of law – but I do argue that something being legal doesn’t make it right.

    I do affirm, as you have, that the German Bible Society, and all the scholars involved in their projects, do have the right to be sufficiently compensated for their work. But I submit to you that they *already have* – and more! So, yes, they should be compensated. But the text of Scripture provides more than “adequate compensation” for these organizations. It has become a cash cow, and efforts like this one to quash the MorphGNT project are to protect their cash cow.

    For more on this, take a look at this post: http://www.baylyblog.com/2009/03/german-bible-society-protects-its-cash-cow.html

    Thanks again for your work. I downloaded your recent talk at Multnomah, and I’m very much looking forward to listening to it.

    Warmly,

    Lucas

44. Richard Andersen

    I live in Japan. I left my life to persue the gospel and the word of God. I must say that I was extremely heart broken when I saw that your site was taken off line. Please know that I do not blame anyone on any side. But to say that I am heart broken and utterly depressed is to understate my feelings. I have been using Zack Hubert’s site zhubert.com for studying the bible in depth.

    This was an absolutely invaluable resourse for me. Sometimes people don’t know who is or where the resources are being used. In Japan, there is little resourses for the bible. In Tokyo there are only two christian resourse shops (they have little content). To buy matierial is expensive. What do the poor do? I feel that the “Gleanings of the Field” have been taken to the very edges leaving nothing for the poor.

    Please, I beg you and all, find a way to resolve the copyright issue. Find a way to share the gospel to others around the world. I am broken…

45. Jonathan

    @Weston re:http://groups.google.com/group/open-scriptures/msg/9bafc6c1e5c0d2d3

    I checked out the GBS site and found the NA27 version they reference. Nice but static. Do you think there’s any possibility they would house a version of zhubert within their existing site? At least we could ask… What they lack is the great morphological tools zhubert offered. Them zhubert.com could just be a redirect to their site. An idea anyway…

46. Open Scriptures « Better Bibles Blog

    […] Open Scriptures Until today I was unaware of the demise of the RE:Greek project (formerly known as zhubert.com). Uncertainty about the fair use of copyrighted materials led the founder to shut down the site. Another site is taking up the cause however and hopes to work toward increasingly “Open Scriptures.” Check out Open Scriptures and their article on RE:Greek, Redeeming the Ill-fated Re:Greek Project: a Call for Participation. […]

47. anthony cheng

    I want to give thanks for being able to at least use the site until now to retranslate parts of the Chinese Bible, as to date, G of John is completed. This site had been tremendous help to me. I am not sure if many of you know that most of the currently in use Bible versions in Chinese, Korean, or Japanese speaking world were originally translated from English. Workers and students without proficient English knowledge are at a loss should they want to dig deep into the origin of the Word. The West has been so far advanced in this area, and should be instrumental to assist our Eastern brethren, and many have, to promote more intimate knowledge of the Bible.

48. Gentle Wisdom » Copyrighting the Word of God 1

    […] Tim Bayly writes that A Greek Bible web site used by lovers of God’s Word around the world has been shut down by the German/United Bible […]

49. Can the original Greek NT be copyrighted? « [- Grasping the Cross -]

    […] all should be aware of: A Greek Bible web site used by lovers of God’s Word around the world has been shut down by the German/United Bible Society. […]

50. Kenneth Armstrong

    “Naked came I out of my mother’s womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.”
    I was pondering a Søren Kierkegaard ΚΑΤΑ ΛΟΥΚΑΝ reference. As is my custom I expected to quickly investigate the Greek with the incredible ease of zhubert.com. Alas, the satisfaction of my impatience is no longer available. Thanksgiving & praise are available to me for the gift from the Father of lights through all the wonderful times I have had with Zack Hubert’s help. Now that same Father has given a gift which I find unpleasant but for which thanksgiving & praise are also available.
    “What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil?”
    ἐν τῃ̂ ὑπομονῃ̂ ὑμω̂ν κτήσεσθε τὰς ψυχὰς ὑμω̂ν.
    εν τη υπομονη υμων κτησεσθε τας ψυχας υμων.

51. Michael W.

    Has anyone else used http://www.greekbiblestudy.org? It is an amazing tool for greek any level of greek student. I have been using it for quite some time. You all should check it out!

52. Andy

    Just want to say a huge huge thank you to Zack. I wouldn’t have been able take my Greek to third year without this tool, and therefore I simply wouldn’t be the minister I am today.
    I’m saddened that Zack appears to have been so discouraged by the apparent “failings” of zhubert.com, and so I just want to say a belated thank you for all his work.
    Thank You Zack
    Andy

53. Sharon Phelps

    I am so disappointed that this website has been shut down. I have used it for quite a while in preparing Bible Study Lessons, and it has made access to the Greek New Testament so much easier and more meaningful. I would be willing to pay a monthly fee to use it, as I do to access Rockin’WithTheCross to access music information.

54. chuck white

    I want Zach to know how thankful I am for all the work he put into his site, and how sad I am that he has had to dismantle it. I have used it to consult with Wycliffe Bible translators on the Duya Bible and the Bible in Mgbolizhia (both languages in central Nigeria.) His site has been SO HELPFUL! Sure there are other sites out there that help in similar ways, but nothing worked as well or as fast as his. I hope somebody can somehow get it up again, but no matter what happens Zach has done a great service for the Kingdom and I’m sure he will be eternally rewarded.

55. Chris Jones

    I just want to say thank you Zack for the great website that I am so sorry to see go. I am in my 4th semester of Greek and it has been an invaluable aid to me. It might be gone, but but I will be forever grateful for the impact it has had on both my study and understanding of Greek grammar.

    May God bless you as you have blessed so many others.

56. Matthew Barron

    Keep up the good work. Someday, it might be nice to begin an online, open critical edition. For example, http://ocp.acadiau.ca/.

57. The Copyrighted Bible Kerfuffle Roundup « futurebible

    […] Redeeming the Ill-fated Re:Greek Project: a Call for Participation […]

58. Roy

    Christopher:

    I agree with you. I was responding more to those with the attitude that UBS is somehow in sin–if legal–because they did not give us the GNT, God did. This, at its root, seems to me to be naive. First off, whatever one may think, they aren’t keeping us from anything. They are asking that we pay for the effort and expense they put into it (I’m uncertain how or why any of us should get to decide when the money received is enough and, to be in God’s will, they must then give the product for free). At the end of the day, we’re not upset because UBS is keeping us from something because we all know they’re not. We’re upset because we want someone else’s hard work for nothing. Right?

    If we want a true open source, non-copyrighted text, it’s going to require a group of scholars to donate the time to create a new critical edition of the GNT, similar to what DTS (or some of their scholars) did with the NET Bible. This would be a great benefit but it would take funding to get off the ground as well as a great number of textual critics which, unfortunately, we don’t seem to have in this generation of scholars. I really don’t think that those of you who are vilifying UBS have any idea of what it takes to produce a critical edition of ANYTHING let alone the NT. It does not simply drop from the sky and is highly technical and detailed work. Go find a copy of a manuscript and try to read it and you’ll see just one aspect of this. Finally, and related to the lack of textual critics, the reason we are so reliant on the UBS GNT is because text critical theory has stagnated. We need to pay scholars to devote the energy necessary to improve the science and thus give greater accuracy to the text. Once again, this costs money. Where is this money going to come from if not from the sale of the GNT? Given that, who is even going to fund the project other than UBS? Where does the UBS get their money? Sale of the GNT. Think through this, folks. Don’t lash out at UBS as if they are latter-day Tetzels.

    Finally (finally!), in a far too long response, keep in mind that the UBS text is NOT the original text. In fact, no text exactly like it ever existed until the Bible Societies produced it. It seems to me in our desire for something at no cost to us, we’ve lost sight of what was actually done in its production. Perhaps I wouldn’t have made some of the same decisions as the Bible Society. Still, I’m wary of being over self-righteous about the cost and profit of a society, project and ministry that I know little about.

    Rant aside, I too miss Re:Greek. Evan as an NT ABD, I would still use it as a check on the fly. That said, for the person willing to pay, doesn’t BibleWorks, Gramcord, and the like do the exact same thing? Yes, they’re expensive but don’t say they aren’t available.

    Again, Christopher, I am in general agreement with your post but I’m reacting–perhaps too strongly–to others.

59. Julian

    Thank you, Zack, for an excellent site. I’m really sorry it’s off-line now, but it was excellent and really useful. I used it at Bible College and subsequently, and I loved it.

60. Lauding two great resources and mourning another « Leitourgeia kai Qurbana: Contra den Zeitgeist

    […] did not have the right to give permission. That may be a crude and inaccurate representation; see here and here for more information. Alas. This means I’ll actually have to look things up and […]

61. David

    Weston, thanks for the information and discussion. I have been a regular (though off-and-on) zhubert.com user for many years, and just today I learned the news of its demise. I don’t know if you have any way of contacting Zack, but if you do, I hope you’ll let him know how much I (we all) have appreciated his work and website. I have found it to be *extremely* useful over the years, and I hope that your new open-source initiative can be at least as successful as his.

    Just a side note (that you’ve probably already answered many times)… how hard would it be to implement something like zhubert.com using a public domain version of the GNT? I use e-sword.net pretty regularly, and it has a number of GNT versions available for free (along with many copyrighted English translations that require purchase, so this is on the up-and-up).

    –David

62. Tim Carter

    Does anybody know if there is anyway I can get hold of the translations I had saved on zhubert? In some cases they are the only copies I have.

63. Chili

    This is mostly a retort to some of Roy’s post earlier. On the whole, I agree with most of what Roy said. To legally have what we all enjoyed in Re:Greek, it would take a great amount of donated work. I am curious though as to why you feel we don’t have the textual critics to do it? As a current seminary student I can assure you there are plenty of minds around to do the work. As far as BibleWorks goes, I have used it and continue to use it. Overall, it does the same thing as Re:Greek did but it just not as effeciently. BibleWorks isn’t as user friendly, in terms of its complexity and even it’s asthetics. I think that’s why a big part of why people are bummed, especially me. I’d be apt to spring the hundreds of dollars you spend on BibleWorks on a program more like Re:Greek far before I would BibleWorks.

    -Chili

64. Caleb

    As a current seminary student, I have used zhubert.com countless times to read Scripture and understand the original Greek text in context. This website has been of TREMENDOUS help to me for both my basic Greek courses and in teaching Sunday school. Although I’m not a programmer and am fairly computer-iliterate, I would like to offer my prayerful support for this project. Thanks again for offering zhubert.com as a wonderful resource! Looking forward to future developments!

65. Tang Sing Hin

    i can’t forget zhubert as zhubert help me a lot in studying greek, and doing NT paper, and even my M. Div thesis

66. Sudharshan

    Zhubert helped me study Greek when I was an Ordinand. I continued to use his website after my Ordination. I would love to be able to help. I use Linux OpenSuse 11. Also know a little bit of web designing but out of touch at the moment. Will help in any way I can.

    Please be assured of my prayers!

67. djm

    I also want to say that though I used the Zhubert site in only a limited capacity I have greatly appreciated the site’s existence. I am certainly open to hear more about ways to help with the Open Scripture project as I find the idea extremely fascinating.

68. Open Scriptures at Fewer Broken Pieces

    […] eclectic biblical texts and associated tagging databases have restrictive copyright licenses, which can cause problems. I will be posting anew my views on how the scriptures should be licensed, but in the meantime, […]

69. Jonathan

    @Zack or Weston,
    What about reviving zhubert using morphs of Tischendorf 8th or Westcott Hort? I know the morph information is already available. Then link to UBS4/NA27 variants. That seems a lot easier than building from the ground up.

70. Brian

    Shucks. I have not been able to find another website like ReGreek. Why develop it? I thought it was great the way it was. Too bad folks can’t offer scripture for free (Matthew 10:8, 1 Corinthians 9:17) and trust God compensate them if He so chooses.

71. etien

    Dear Zak,

    You will probably be surprised from what I am about to say. But I am glad with the development of the situation regarding your web site. What do I want to say? Your site is a great helper for me and many other people, but it has one problem. The Greek text you are using is corrupted. The textual criticism it is not a science but an infidelity. The faster you get rid of this “science” the better for all the Christians using your software. I highly recommend using Textus Receptus for the New Testament and the Complutensian Polyglot’s text for the Old Testament – Septuagint. Unfortunately I have not found the Complutensian’s text typed in a text format anywhere on the internet. It can be found only as images. I’ll be happy if you hear the God’s will in my words. This would make your work independent from all religious institutions willing to profit from God’s words.

72. David Instone-Brewer

    I’m very sorry to hear that the German Bible Society has enforced their rights in this way.

    The Greek lexicon which Zak and the community was developing is independent of the UBS text – could the lexicon pages be reinstated, or the data for this be released for other developers to use?

    David IB

73. Maria Norberg

    Dear Mr. Hubert. Thank you for all the work that you have put into your website. I managed my greek studies much better with that help! Specifically it meant a lot to me because your website made my studies more accessable. I have a disability and I have a hard time dealing with ordinary books both because of sight impairment and moving impairment. I am really sad that I wont have that same chance to equal studies anymore.

    Maria

74. Henri de Solages

    Hello.

    The Greek Bible has been written hundred of years ago, so is just not copyrightable anymore according to European Union law and to the Berne Convention. The result of the scientific work of finding out the best versions is supposed to be equal to the original work, which is in the public domain. So the German Bible society’s claim can just be ignored. If you want, I can have that Bible hosted here in Mongolia.

75. F. Mutua Kilonzo

    Zack,

    God bless you; your work was invaluable to me and enabled me to successfully complete an MDiv. thesis! I pray that an open source resource will be born to continue your good work.

    Thanks to all those who are giving thought and prayer to this possibility. “With God all things are possible,” especially when God’s people are united and willing to “do something” that’s within their power towards a common goal to the glory of God! Look forward to doing my bit when I get a clear picture of where things stand on this. Just found out the website’s gone.

    Blessings to you all!

    Mutua

76. Roger Pearse

    Why isn’t someone seeking out a lawyer? This claim must be bogus. There can only be copyright in original work. The NT is not an original work (although the critical apparatus may be). Why all the talk of surrender? Show some fight, will you? This is a greedy, nasty organisation, harming everyone.

    Consider the implications for every classical text online!

77. MorphGNT busted by “copyright” at Roger Pearse

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78. Dave

    I’m very disappointed. I relied heavily on this website for my Greek studies and I wish there was more responsibility to keep it going. Slothfulness is not the answer. Nor is the fear of man’s copyrights when God’s word is freely given and should remain free even if civil disobedience is required.

79. German Bible Society

    Information on the copyright situation for the Greek New Testament can be found at http://www.dbg.de/en/meta/service/rechte/foreign-rights.html:
    – How can the Word of God be copyright protected?
    – Is the German Bible Society a profit organization?
    – How does the German Bible Society use the money that it earns from its publishing?

80. Todd Oeftger

    I have read all the posts and explanations for why zhubert.com was shut down, but it is still not clear why there is a copyright infringement.

    Throughout the ages past, the word of God has been under attack, chained to a wall or left in the darkness of ancient languages to in order to keep it from the people. At the time it was the powerful church of Rome who desired to restrict access to the Bible lest the people discover her false teachings and cause her to loose her power over them. Yet it was then work of God’s reformers that brought the Word of God to an oppressed people.

    Beginning with Jesus, who spoke the plain truth to the common citizen and came to his own town and read from Isaiah (See Luke 4:17-30):
    “THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD IS UPON ME, BECAUSE HE ANOINTED ME TO PREACH THE GOSPEL TO THE POOR. HE HAS SENT ME TO PROCLAIM RELEASE TO THE CAPTIVES, AND RECOVERY OF SIGHT TO THE BLIND, TO SET FREE THOSE WHO ARE OPPRESSED, TO PROCLAIM THE FAVORABLE YEAR OF THE LORD.”

    But the people of the synagogue were filled with rage at his explanation and attempted to through him off a cliff. Later Paul brought the word of God to the Gentiles for the Jews refused to share it with them for fear of corruption. Ironically they became corrupt because of their fear and failure to share.

    Before the Reformation there were at times but very few copies of the Bible in existence, but God had not suffered His word to be wholly destroyed. The word of God had for ages been locked up in languages known only to the learned; but a time had come for the Scriptures to be translated and given to the people of different lands in their native tongue.

    In John Wycliffe’s day the fountain of truth was closed to the uneducated classes of people. Wycliffe did not set himself deliberately in opposition to Rome. But devotion to truth could not but bring him in conflict with falsehood. He fearlessly accused the priesthood of having banished the Scriptures, and demanded that the Bible be restored to the people and that its authority be again established in the church. The papal leaders were filled with rage when they perceived that this reformer was gaining an influence greater than their own. Three papal bulls were dispatched to England, commanding immediate and decisive measures to silence the teacher of heresy. Defiance meant certain death at the stake. Yet, Wycliffe was emboldened by the promises in the word of God, “Fear not:… I am thy shield” (Gen. 15:1), and God stretched out his hand to protect His servant. For his work was to preach the Gospel to the poor. But the greatest work of his life was to the translation of the Scriptures into the English language. He desired that every man in England might read, in the language in which he was born, the wonderful works of God. The reformer feared not the prison or the stake. He had placed in the hands of the English people a light which should never be extinguished. In giving the Bible to his countrymen, he had done more to break the fetters of ignorance and vice, more to liberate and elevate his country, than was ever achieved by the most brilliant victories on the field of battle. At the time there was no law in England prohibiting the Bible, for it had never before been published in the language of the people, which gave them an opportunity for the circulation of the word of God. The priest attempted to silence the reformer and his teachings by threatening his life unless he retract. But his final words to them were, “With whom, think you, are ye contending? with an old man on the brink of the grave? No! with Truth — Truth which is stronger than you and will overcome you.” For the, “Lord hath taught me rather to obey God than men.”

    The study of the Bible will ennoble every thought, feeling, and aspiration as no other study can. It gives stability of purpose, patience, courage, and fortitude; it refines the character and sanctifies the soul. The Great Reformation was begun by the hand of God by empowering the people with the truth.

    Wycliffe, Luther and other great reformers were up against an enormous established power and ignorance. Their goal was all the same, to get the undefiled word of God in the hands of the common people. Zhubert.com was doing the same, but was stopped by something as mundane as a copyright.

    I for one was never educated in the Biblical languages, yet Zhubert.com empowered me to dig deep in the word of God like I had never done before. I was in the middle of study on the Biblical meaning of grace, from Genesis to Revelation. The Greek had become a valuable tool as got into Ephesian but I am now stopped at Titus. I had grown to depend upon the web site. I regret that I am unable to return to school at this time to take Greek and Hebrew.

    I believe that the copyright problem needs to be challenged! Access to the Greek should be returned to the common people like myself. Who can know but God what great reforms will come from the free access to the truth in this easy to use form. Please, someone be bold and restore this site for us common folk that we might know more fully the word of God without depending upon the clergy and their imperfect interpretations.

    Thanks.

    (History on John Wycliffe was summarized from “The Great Controversy” by E G White, pages 79-96.)

81. Hal Hester

    Thanks to Zack and Weston. Your time and efforts are very appreciated. God bless you both

82. Nazaroo

    We have been operating on the ‘open everything’ concept for many years, believing that Christians have the right and authority to give every kind of aid and assistance to one another absolutely free. The examples from Elisha & Acts inform us that “selling” the word of God or our help to fellow-Christians is basically wrong.
    We have worked to provide exhaustive materials for the study of John’s Gospel which have been long out of print and out of copyright. We have used copyrighted material for analysis and review purposes, and we have created our own material for which the copyright has been organized under the GNU open license system.
    By creating our own materials we have been able to provide copious materials and usable tools like online NT texts in several languages.
    The attempt to prevent Christians from freely giving to one another and provide resources without charge to the world is “anti-Christ” and unbiblical.

    peace
    Nazaroo

83. Germans try to OWN the Greek NT! - Christian Forums

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84. Markafeller

    I am sadden by the loss however I expect things to get far worse over time. As there is an effort to regulate the content of the net for the left, to tax it or make such sites to costly to stay on. That the church would be up to its ears with dealing with the homeless and the cost from legal problems. Also add copy write laws could be changed to use fees that also would effect even public libraries. I think it is good to save what you read and need to your hard drive.

85. Laurel LaCivita

    I am so sorry for the loss of Zhubert.com. The website encouraged me to take up my own self-study of ancient Greek after a lapse of 10 years, and, then,to begin formal study of ancient Greek in a University. The very great value of Zhubert.com was the concordance and myriad hyperlinkings of all the words and definitions. I loved to see all possible parsings or conjugations of each word, and to locate their usages in scripture. This functionality, which was freely given, is not the work of the German Bible Society or USB4, but of the creativity of the programmer who made it available. It made word study easy, and possible. It made scripture accessible. It provided the most comprehensive English to Greek concordance of the New Testament, which no one, as far as I can tell, has provided in print or online. I don’t understand why/how the German Bible society has the right to suppress such applications, which they do not provide. And, by the way, the German Bible Society’s USB4 Reader’s Edition (which I have purchased), is awesome, but, like any book, cannot provide the word analysis that was at your fingertips through Zhubert.com. If there is anything I can do to help transfer the functionality of Zhubert.com to another text as Westcott-Hort, as some others have proposed, let me know. Thank you Zack.

86. thomas

    Is anyone taking the lead with an action plan?
    Here’s a first draft:
    1) create a legal foundation to carry on Zach’s idea (?done? = this site?)
    2) ask Zach & Co. if they are willing to donate all their existing software
    3) assuming Yes(2), get it and install it on servers.
    4) recruit a core team of volunteers (hopefully including Zach&Co).
    5) recruit a legal consultant (re: NT copyright & intellectual property)
    6) create an affordable-subscription-based entry portal (yes, most people will pay a small fee, even tho they wouldnt bother to make a donation; eg, i am a retiree with limited means, but would certainly send $25 from my Paypal to get things started).
    7) legally notify the claimant (GBS) of intention to use their text as before, but offering a substantial % of the subscription for licensure; note our legal consultant’s opinion that their copyright claim is not valid nor enforceable in this case.
    8) Track A: put the site back online, pending a judgement/stay by a court of law with valid jurisdiction
    9) Track B: a ‘transition subteam’ of programmers will make the needed modifications to Zach’s interfaces in order to use other GNT versions; the legal consultant will help with contacting custodians of other GNT versions and obtaining permissions.
    10) Merge(A&B): programmers will enable users to select which GNT version is the base; any version (such as the contested UBS4) that becomes unavailable would be easily disabled without fatal loss of site functionality.
    11) [and (0)] ALL PRAY!!!

    Let me add my thanks to Zach and all who have contributed. As a software professional, I am quite sure it is best to adapt his remarkable work as directly as possible, rather than start anew. I am confident that this project is worthy and achievable.

87. maria

    Thunk you for zhubert.com. I used it succesfully to prepare for seminars at the university. It was really great. I hope something like that will be created soon.

88. Noi pagini pentru limba greacă a Noului Testament « Marius Cruceru

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89. pphhiilliip dduuttttoonn

    Hi all.
    I am in distress learning that zhubert.com is gone. A few years ago I discovered it. At the time I did not know anything about Biblical languages. I just used to browse the sight looking for potentially “cool” Koine phrases of which I entertained the idea of getting a tattoo. I was totally ignorant of how cool Koine is. Now I am studying Mounce’s “basics” books. I am learning for free from guys over at http://ad70.net/podcast/category/greek/ for free as they are teaching via a “live” Wednesday night internet radio show (and recorded podcast). People who love Koine go through so much sacrifice for their passion. Now I am getting bit by the Koine bug and started to code some web quizzes to help myself and other students. I am a 13 year software engineer veteran. I must say it is a challenge to work with polytonic Greek (finding fonts, working with unicode, dealing with emacs and my Dvorak keyboard layout, etc.). Well I hope to plug into the group of biblical-tech-geeks and with plenty of optimism I hope to contribute in any way possible. Blessings and Peace! ~flypaper

90. oneaustin

    What is the current status of regreek.com and/or zhubert.com? Its a shame such a fantastic resource is unavailable.

91. Christianity and Copyright (2): The Practical Problem | The Library Basement

    […] many people, the shutdown of Zack Hubert’s Greek website is the epitome of the practical problem of copyright restrictions on Christian texts. The website […]

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